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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: the album that never got made

I have a theory - if they had gotten around to it and done it right, the album they never got to finish would have been GREAT. The closest we'll get it disc four of " So Many Roads"

Now the Vince and Phil songs would have stunk
the Bobby tunes no one would have liked at all

the Jerry Tunes? Some of his best in a LONG time

So Many Roads
Days Between
Lazy River Road
Liberty

Any thoughts? Song selection? Album title? How good do you think it would have been?

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Poster: kschneid Date: Nov 20, 2006 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

I'd buy Go To Heaven...twice...before laying out for that one ;-). Seriously, I can't imagine a less interesting Dead release.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Really? How about Terrapin Station? Besides that tune and Estimated that album is all fluff.

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Poster: kschneid Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

You mean Terrapin is a worse album than GtH? Passenger? Samson? Personally, I wouldn't call those fluff, but I know we've all got different tastes. Hell, I *like* GtH...and Shakedown!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Yeah I'd say it's up there. First of all MOST of the tunes on Terrapin were cool LIVE but were sure sissy sounding on that album. Dancin? Get real! The funked the Sh*t out of it live but on that album it sucked. Go to Heaven isn't all that great except it DOES have Althea on it which I regard as one of the best tunes Hunter ever wrote. Shakedown - same thing although it's certainly more intersting all polished up sounding thatn Terrapin is to me.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 20, 2006 12:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

sadly, i have to agree with you on that sentiment :(

(other than lazy river road of course)

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Poster: kschneid Date: Nov 20, 2006 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Sure, and there would hopefully be a DP/Vault/LMA show to satisfy that...

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Poster: ducats Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

7-11 is kidding right? So Many Roads + Lazy River Road are the only tunes that never made an album - but Jerry was done b4 Hunter wrote them - may he rip.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

What are you talking about? Easy Answers was on the Wasserman trios album with Weir and Neil Young but other than that none of those tunes are on any studio album I know of unless you count Hunters solso version of Liberty

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Poster: ducats Date: Nov 20, 2006 5:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

I meant that needed to be

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Corinna is on Ratdogs studio release and Liberty is on Phil and Friends studio release. i know it aint the dead - i just had to nitpick - sorry ;)

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Poster: Bird Creek, Alaska Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Corinna=Velveeta(Cheesy)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Velveeta isn't even really cheese. Yeah I never got the point to that song but I'm sure I's say it was cheesier than some of Brents tunes like Easy to Love you.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

yeah but those came AFTER the Dead album should have

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

once again i missed the point (shocking huh?) - oops

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Don't worry Dire, I'm certainly not going to conjure up any sexually vulgar connotations of relatives. Ooops sorry, better not bring up that freak.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Sorry, but imho Wake of the Flood was the last satisfying lp--live or studio--they released. Mars Hotel had too much fluff, even if it had a half of a good record. Blues for Allah comes closest of the post retirement lps to being great. Shakedown Street: fluff. Terrapin: Dancing in the Streets??? Go to Heaven? In the Dark? Built to Last? F;uff, I say, fluff.

What I loved best about the Dead were the Hunter/Garcia songs that said something--told a story, revealed a mood--great lyrics and a great tune.

But then, I stopped going after 1973.

A final lp/cd? Jerry was right. And Phil kept his tunes off the box set because they simply stank.

Hey--most bands peak after a few lps and then sink into mediocrity in their writing. The Dead had a good run from Workingman's through Wake. That's good enough for me.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

I see your point and don't disagrre nescessarily. I think every album after Blues for Allah were weak as an overall album. Every album had probably two or three great tunes that weren't as good on the album as live and the rest complete filler. I mean sorry but if you feel the need to put a cover tune on an album it best have something new going for it imo. Live is one thing but album?

I will say though that I think Blues for Allah is a way stronger album than Wake of the Flood. For me I think it's because they put all their energy into the studio with the absence of playing live. WOTF on the other hand seems kinda sluggish to me. I like allmost all those tunes ( Row Jimmy is one of my all time favs ) but I think they all come out better live. I just think Blues for Allah is overall better as an album. Not saying the songs are nescessarily better.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Of course, it's all subjective opinion. I do like Blues for Allah, and you have given me pause to think. Okay--THAT'S the last great one. Interestingly enough, it seems more musically aligned with Wake than subsequent material--very gentle, soothing, and sweet. Franklim, etc--great stuff. Crazy Fingers--excellent. But Wake seemed to be the logical continuation of American Beauty--what might have happened if the Europe 72 stuff was recorded in the studio (okay--it sort of was). I love the textures of that l.p, and the tunes are so excellent--Sunshine, Eyes, Weather Report Suite--the best from Bobby--Row, Jimmy, and--geeze--the haunting Stella Blue. Damn!

Mars has a few goodies. Certain Scarlet Begonias and the mighty Unbroken Chain--maybe Shipe of fools and Pride of Cucumonga--but it also has Wave that Flag, Money, Money--fluff.

Yes, the 80's acoustic material is very good, but not as good--in my mind--as the 1970 acoustic material. Seems overrehersed. The 1970 stuff seems more real--more from the heart. So many songs played once or twice--not every night. There are only a few Little Sadies from 70, for example, and they are so much more heartfelt. Ditto RoaLIW McFall.

I'm not saying they sucked after 1973; I just think they became more and more inconsistent as songwriters.


Disclaimer:
Remember, I'm biased to the early days when I used to see them (1967-73). And please remember that my opinion is the only worthwhile one on this thread and you'd better agree with me!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Woah, I just caught the LIVE and studio part. What about Reckoning? Surely you can't deny those 1980 acoustic sets were masterpeices. And the space>Fire on Dead set is as good as anything they ever did imo.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 20, 2006 2:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

I partly agree with with you, doc, in that WAKE is by far their best album (w/many of their subsequent best ever live songs) but I think BLUES FOR ALLAH is actually quite good (the CrazyFingers may be better than any live version they ever did) and as Johnny says, both RECKONING and DEADSET, imo, are brilliant--just excellent examples of great live Dead.

as far as every album post-BLUES (including InTheDark), I agree--dreck of the highest (or lowest) order with BuiltToLast imo, an absolute embarrassment.

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Poster: TheDaliTrauma Date: Nov 20, 2006 3:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

The band should have taken a year off, came back and done some very mellow recording sessions. Just have Bob and Jerry jam on acoustic guitars, run through some old classics, some old folk and jugband songs, some blues. Let them find their footing, then gradually have each one start introducing new material, get out the electric guitars, bring in Phil, bring in his songs, his dynamics, add the drummers, bring in Vince and Bruce. Jam for a couple weeks on the new stuff. Move the band up to someplace quiet and work on new stuff. No pressure. No industry people. No producers. Just the band and the crew. Gradually start to record. Record live as much as possible, minimal overdubs...Could have been something great. I really dug 'Days Between', 'So Many Roads', 'Lazy Liver Load'. Wasn't a big fan of 'Velveeta' or 'Cheesey Answers' although they weren't terrible. 'Wave to the Wind' and 'Childhoods End' both showed a lot of promise.

Personally I think they should have gone back and done a "Revolutionary Hamstrung Blues" / "Day Job" single...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 20, 2006 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

i was never a big fan of days between - just never struck me right for some reason. now, lazy river road on the other hand, i feel is one of jerry's greates tunes EVER!!! It is one of my favorite songs of all time by any artist. lyrics are a hunter masterpiece. sure wouldn't have minded that for the album title either :)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

I think Days Between is a killer song. Going by the fact that like me you think SOTM is lame I shall not try and argue my point : )

I'm with you on Lazy River too. I was completely ambivelant about that tune ( never saw them play it live just heard it ) until I saw Weir play it at that Comes A Time Jerry tribute show last year. He struck such a magical mood that hasn't been struck with me since seeing the real deal. Now that tune has a permant place in my heart.

I still think the new material was some of Jerry's strongest writing since I don't know when. Even in the Dark only had TWO good Jerry songs - sorry but I think Push is lame. To me the only weak part about their last stuff was everyone elses tunes besides Jerry. Bob was usually good for at least one decent tune in my book in the LATER years ( ala Victim, Bucket ) but Corrina just didn't cut it for me.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

i just never liked the "sound" of days between - though i certainly don't think it is an inherently bad song by any stretch.

ive seen Weir play LRR a couple of times too and absolutely love the justice he brings to that song. Jerry sure shines though him when bobby sings that tune. It is just a magical song - love the DSO versions too - John captures Jerry perfectly.

I also agree with you about Push - totally lame tune. I have no idea what he and hunter were thinking when it came to that one. Always a buzzkill at a show when they pulled that one out - thank god it was a first set tune unlike Corinna - i agree that is a crappy tune too. part of me wants to like it, but i cant quite "get there."

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Poster: Seven-Eleven Date: Nov 20, 2006 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Hello,

I'm new here, but I've also been interested in the album that never got made. I agree, it would have been a very good album. What would the running order be? Of the songs I know, I always though this would make a good running order.

Walkin' Blues
Way To Go Home
Easy Answers
Liberty
Corinna
Lazy River Road
Days Between
Eternity
So Many Roads.


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Poster: lobster12 Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Samba is interesting. It's not a fav among most and for me it's "blah" for lack of a better term. I always thought something was missing and listening to the marsalis show in 94 I figured out what. the tune needs some kinda horn. That version in LA is pretty damn good. Much like I need a miracle had harp on the studio album, a good sax riff might have worked for this tune in the studio. Now on the other hand, nothing could save easy Answers.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Ok man now here's were I jump screaming from this ship - Perhaps the WORST tune they ever did in my opinion. I'd rather listen to Keith sing.

Easy Answers - much better than it gets credit for imo. !st of all listen to the version on that Wasserman album. Sounds good to me. Second - it's nice and cynical so I happen to gravitate to that over sugar and spice.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

Really? Worse than Wave To the wind? Samba is bad, but this tune is brutal. As for EA, check out san diego dec 93. That version is actually damn good

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

I dunno, they're both up there. Just about anything Phil wrote AND sang post Mars Hotel pretty much sucks imo. I think Tons of Steel and a coupla other Brent tunes suck pretty bad too. I mean any tune with " oooh oooh" sung all high like that makes me really start to squirm. I'll check out that version as I don't happen to hate that song like so many people do. I like the concept because it's true - there aren't any easy answers. Another good EA is 10-15-94

This post was modified by johnnyonthespot on 2006-11-20 21:25:45

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Nov 20, 2006 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

hate to say it, but the SD version works because Vince is on. he really drives the tune. As much as i don't like Vince's playing, have to give the man credit when it's due.

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Poster: ganges Date: Nov 20, 2006 12:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: the album that never got made

I totally agree with the 4 Jerry tunes, especially SMR and DB, and if I listen to JGB 95 it might have been a great album!